get the ultra orthodox in israel to say you can live your lives until you are 105, and then tell the hezbollah and hamas guys you can live the rest of your life die at 102 and watch all of your children and grandchildren grow up without killing each other. >> i don't know that we do because it is so entrenched? >> hal: but, again, the entrenchment comes from behavior. the positive word for cultural habit is tradition. and unfortunately a lot of traditions were incredibly damaging to members of society who were disenfranchised or left out in the cold and the systemic disenfranchisement of those people meant that if you and which were both putting out 100% effort, but you are only getting 70% return on that effort -- >> caller: but some are intensely beautiful, though. and i have been in homes of muslim friends and when you are in their house, you feel like you are the only person on the planet. it's an amazing experience. same when you are with your jewish friends, they are the same beauty. and your progress, and liberal friends, when you experience people as people it's a whole different thing